Where?
Buying Every Damned Crusie Book x4, that’s where.
“Hi. I’m Crusie.
I apologize for being unclear. This is what happens when you go for snark instead of direct communication.
I am against plagiarism. If Ms. Edwards has plagiarized as it certainly seems she has, then she should pay the price.
I think that the SBs should savagely review any novel they find wanting, including Ms. Edwards’.
I think that this site is one of the smartest sites on romance on the net.
I also think this site has made Cassie Edwards a scapegoat and a whipping boy, taking gleeful delight in pointing out how bad she is over and over and over again to the point where it’s close to harassment. The woman is a bad writer, we get it, we get it, so why did Candy give her friend one of Edwards’ books when she knows what outstandingly good books there are out there? Because it’s Cassie Edwards, and she’s so much fun to kick. The only thing I do not like about this site is the way Edwards is treated.
So when I saw another “Cassie Edwards, ohmygod” post, the fact that it was about plagiarism is not what annoyed me first, it was that it was another shot at Cassie Edwards, discovered because people were reading her to make fun of her again. She plagiarized, I hope she goes down for it. But she doesn’t deserve the constant humiliation this site heaps on her, nobody does.
I realize this will enrage SB fans. I realize this will make some people think even less of me than they already do and that opinion was pretty darn low to begin with. I’m good with that. Have a nice day.
Posted by Jenny Crusie on 01/07 at 04:40 PM “ Link-look in the comments
I’m bordering rabidgrrl fandom for that one.
And let me link to Selah and salute her, too, for putting on her teacher’s cap (so attractively askance) and breaking it down further.
“My other point? Clearly, Cassie Edwards — and Laurell K. Hamilton and a slew of other authors who are routinely excoriated online — have a large and devoted audience. What is the average book reviewer saying to THOSE people every time they not only diss a book or report on an event in the writing community – ALL of which is perfectly reasonable behavior — but savage the author to boot? Aren’t they saying, “hey, you’re too stupid to know a good book, AND the author with whom you may have a long-time literary relationship is pretty much a moron, too.” So when blogging reviewers (NOT necessarily the SBs) get all het up about authors allegedly bashing readers in these online dust-ups? Perhaps they should, for just a moment, consider the literally thousands of readers they routinely offend simply by being unnecessarily cruel to their favorite authors.”
And I’m buying more copies of her books, too.
You know what struck me about the (fan girl \ SB Fan) exchange? Usually it’s authors getting their ass handed to them for “being mean” to the readers. But I’ve been noticing lately that the definition of “readers” only applies to fans of certain review sites. There’s a weird rift there somewhere and I just don’t have time to figure it out right now, but I’ll keep monitoring. Sure. We are authors AND readers so the first classification wipes out the second. But what about readers who are die hard fans (who are not authors). Why are they getting treated like hell? The SB’s, Jane and Karen are also fan girls of certain authors. You’d think they’d be more considerate and careful. When fan girls start eating their own … it’s reader anarchy or something.
I’ve always enjoyed Crusie’s work. She’s on the short list of authors I buy in hardcover. I like the fact that she doesn’t write the same book over and over. She’s like a great chef at your favorite restaurant, you don’t bother reading the menu or ordering “the usual”, you just say, bring me whatever she’s cooking right now and pop open a bottle of whatever she’s drinking for the table.
But back on topic. I have said before that I think peole grossly overestimate how many “readers” are online. The vast majority of romance readers have no idea what’s happening on the web and they are happier people becuase of it.
What stymies me about the lil’ chat they have going on over there is that if you stand up for Cassie in the general bashing of her as regular entertainment, that automatically means you endorse plagiarism.
Uhh…NOT.
All of what Crusie said in the first half of the comment was forgotten because of the second half-even to where people were combing her older blog posts saying she’d gone soft.
I saw that coming. Very A + B = C. never
Why does the “P” word get the same reaction as — say — goat rape murder? As a famous victim of the “P” word has said, there are only so many words and (for some authors) it’s always the same book over and over again anyway.
It takes a HELL of a lot more imagination to rape and murder a goat than to copy someone else’s writing. And yet … the reaction seems the same. And the punishments are pretty similar, too. It’s social crime, not a federal or state crime. But you can’t defend the person on any level after the accusation has been made. You can’t say, “Yanno, other than his sex perversions he’s an alright guy.” You just can’t. Well. you can but people will pound on you.
Hey! It cut my entropy image! Grrr.
::Tap tap tap::
My comment is awaiting moderation.
It was the goat-rape-murder part that did it. I should have used other words.
Hee-I dug it out.
Can you fix the image not showing up?
I don’t mean to be critical of Crusie, but … to say anything on any of those forums contrary to the pitch fork villagers crusade is just throwing gasoline on the fire and tying yourself to the post in the town square. It’s extreme blogging at its’ most dangerous level. Everyone knows how it progresses from there on out. I used to think it was the right thing to do — stepping into the fray and speaking your mind on a topic even if it isn’t the sanctioned opinion du jour.
There’s a scene in “I am legend” where Will Smith walks into a darkened warehouse and sees a hoard of undead feeding on a deer. What Crusie did was exactly like that scene. It can only end badly in real life. You can’t save the deer and you become the next meal. There’s no nobility in that. I know you and Selah see it as heroic (and it is) but if you go in knowing you can’t possibly win … it seems Quixotic to me. Sure I’ve done it, but I had a really good reason, nothing to lose and I’m just perverse by nature. I don’t recommend it.
I am afraid for her.
I should probably take February off from blogging, too.
I am bogarting your blog. I shall return to work now.
*sigh*
what picture? I can no find de picture.
And the I Am Legend? *shudder* All to real.
I’ve never really been a fan of SBTB. Honestly, they’re just too mean. There’s enough mean in the world already, ya know?
I do think Dear Author has handled it decently, taking the avenue towards the discussion of plagiarism and less about Ms. Edwards.
Give it time. Rather like Dorian Gray it looks good for awhile and then someone takes a knife to the picture and badness errupts.
“Give it time. Rather like Dorian Gray it looks good for awhile and then someone takes a knife to the picture and badness errupts.”
You mean like silence being equated to tacit approval?
What I found unnerving was the statement by DA Jane that the author’s voice is the most powerful in the romance community and that the truth of that statement is only magnified, of course, with more authors speaking on a specific issue.
My neck still hurts from the double-take, actually. Outside of a few authors that sell as much as the GDP of some countries, an author’s voice is the least powerful in the romance community (and in most genre (but not lit) communities) — and DA usually appears engaged in the act of systematically silencing such voices.
Sorry, I am going a little off tangent. I should know better than to read any of the posts over there. Both plagiarism and authors being treated as lowest of the low are issues that make me see red.
I think that authors in general (with the exception of a morbid few hold outs) are talking elsewhere. I suspect what they are saying is: Avoid those sites as if your life depends upon it. The last author they slapped the “P” word on — real eye opener for me I must say — when I checked in on the comments at Dear Author — they were on a death watch vigil, certain at last that they had finally driven a writer to the grim reaper’s door with their ridicule and hate. For all we know they succeeded.
I used to think they were working to be a mini-model of Howard Stern. Costs are high for playing, but the audience rewards were bigger. I’m not a fan of Stern, but I don’t hate him. He’s got a sense of humor and a decent side AND he can be very entertaining. But, unlike Stern, if there’s an upside with the horsemen I can’t see it. Stern uses his platform to promote some excellent causes. He sets a balance.
Whatever their MO, for whatever reason, authors who choose to participate in the beatings (I’m not talking about the victims, I’m talking about writers who go there and comment in the fray) are feeding the beast that will eventually eat them, too. If they are OK with that then more power to them. I hope it works out for them. When DA says authors have a powerful voice, I think she means: Authors have a voice there … until the audience decides it’s time to cut their throat and ramp up the “fun” level. (Based on how their blogs have worked this far.)
Go back through history. This is not a new form of entertainment. It’s as old as time.
Sliding off to the Twighlight Zone … Do you think they get away with this stuff because the victims are women? Even lower on the stripper pole, romance writers? Just throwing that loose thought out there. Last bloffel they threw in a new “hate”. I had been expecting the standard “racist” label to get thrown and instead they went straight for the “slut” ticket. Not new in general but new to that crew.
I love Cruise for daring to take a stand against the savage attack on an author. It’s one thing to bring fact to light. It’s another to entice a riot. That’s exactly what’s being done to CE. Plagiarism is wrong no matter how you look at it or who has done it. But to repeatably strike out at this women is beating a dead horse.
As for “snark” blogs, they used to be entertaining. When they were the art of snark. Now, what began as snark has turned into something disgusting. I was recently attacked on a “snark” blog. I could understand if the attack was directed at my professional life, but it wasn’t. My private life was attacked. My family was attacked. This was seen as perfectly acceptable to the bloodthirsty mob. I was accused of having a victim’s complex, when clearly the line of right and wrong were ignored. Lies were written, untrue accusations were made and no one stepped in to say that attacking someone’s personal life was wrong. How very sad.
Now CE is the latest fodder for this bloodthirsty mob. Again, it’s one thing to note that plagiarism has been done. To go on like they have and to again, cross the boundaries of right and wrong by kicking this woman when she’s at her lowest, just goes to show that shooting someone isn’t enough these days. Nothing less than overkill is the rule of thumb.
“There’s a scene in “I am legend” where Will Smith walks into a darkened warehouse and sees a hoard of undead feeding on a deer. What Crusie did was exactly like that scene.”
Omygod, what an accurate picture THAT is for the entire mess!
But. If they had? Do you think it would have made on scintilla of difference? Would one person there have understood, nodded their head, laid down the pitch fork and stepped back? I don’t. The best anyone can do for the person being attacked is to yank them the hell out of there and let the blog fester and die.
one
dammit
I can’t blow dry my hair and tyoe at the same time. I just now discovered this limitation.
“Authors have a voice there … until the audience decides it’s time to cut their throat and ramp up the “fun” level.”
That as well is a perfect description. It brought to mind the clown in Devil’s Rejects.
There is a difference between exposing things like plagiarism and having a favorite vehicle (authors) to serve some very deep rooted pathologies. Unless, of course, your favorite vehicle happens to be a blogger (or four).
“The best anyone can do for the person being attacked is to yank them the hell out of there and let the blog fester and die.”
Exactly. They are the Matrix. We have an underground.
“My neck still hurts from the double-take, actually. Outside of a few authors that sell as much as the GDP of some countries, an author’s voice is the least powerful in the romance community (and in most genre (but not lit) communities) — and DA usually appears engaged in the act of systematically silencing such voices.”
Yeah, that’s a beautiful one…
Any minute now someone off blog will decide that this is an attack on readers. It’s not. It never has been. But that’s the usual spin that criticism of those blogs usually receives. Reading over at Mrs. Giggles today, it kind of sounds like readers are getting tired of the hate, too.
EVERYONE is getting tired of the hate. I’m watching agents get tired of it too, which is fantastic.
[...] Also, see Selah March, Eva Gale, and this discussion at Romance Divas. Categories: News | Trackback • Permalink • [...]
I think there’s a tipping point between understanding the self-destructive futility of playing “lone voice in a wasteland of STOOOPID” and “I can’t respect myself if I don’t speak out.” I see Jenny’s participation in the CE thread as her having reached that tipping point. Having reached it myself on occasion, I empathize.
The pressure of so much thoughtless cruelty reaches critical mass, and I can’t live with my own silence another minute.
The only difference is that I now choose to speak out on my own blog, whereas Jenny chose to take the battle to their playground. I can see the advantage — why bore your own readers if they’re mostly there for the fun anecdotes and the writing posts?
On other other hand, playing on the horsemen’s turf opens you up to a world of hurt. But I’m pretty sure Jenny can take it. I wouldn’t worry if I were you, Ferfel
You’re right, Ferfe. Many thanks for giving me the yank. I recently told my friend that all the hate has brought out friends I never knew I had. I told Frankie last night I like being part of the “club” with you ladies. Birds of a feather and all that…and I like this flock.
Back on topic, yes, Eva, I think a lot of people are sick and tired of the drama and hate and the lynch-mob like atmosphere. Just because anyone can start up a blog doesn’t mean they have the right to hurt a person with it and call it freedom of speech. Again, bringing to light the act of plagiarism is one thing. Humilation of a person is another. It’s wrong and really needs to stop being praised.
I believe there is no stopping it. Zen on that for a few days. Accept it. You’ll feel much better about life. It’s mostly the anonymous factor. These are people who would never ever behave that way in public and they don’t see you and I or anyone else online as “real”.
Look on the positive side.
a. (Psychology) Somewhere in a University psych lab they are studying those blogs the way they used to study rats. Someone could get a doctorate just on the Horsemen’s blogs alone.
b. (Economy) If the economy gets worse, will the hit blogs get meaner? I think they have been following that trend indicator.
c. (Politics) If Obama gets elected (and he won’t) will they get nicer?
d. (Art) There is a new kind of writing going on. Grunge graffiti, real snark (my kind of writing), digital haiku, etc. Those blogs provide endless inspiration for the quieter, more contemplative places on the web.
That should get you started on putting the past hell-days into a better perspective.
Zeek was the one who yanked you, BTW. She’s a sweetie pie.
For these reasons I do not read any online blogs other than that of my friends. It’s one thing to point out plagarism, it’s another thing to keep beating the poor woman in the head with a club. It’s embarrassment enough she’ll have to live with.
I am glad I do not live online otherwise I’d be in the midst of arguments all the time because I have a big mouth!
Eva,
Bless you. Thank you for posting this. I don’t read many blogs, but I do love to come pop in on you from time to time. This post just makes me realize why.
And now I have discovered I need to do more to support Jenny Cruisie and Selah March as well
Cheers
Cheryl
Cheryl *smooch*
God bless you all. This is the most sensible discussion of what’s happening that I’ve read so far. Many authors have sworn off the blogs (except for those of their pals’) because of the creepy pack mentality such as SB and DA. Authors cannot comment without having their words twisted out of context and used against them. I’m appalled by what’s happened to CE (I don’t know her and don’t read her books.)
But I know authors in similar sub-genres of romance and lemme tell ya, the publishing system is somewhat complicit in the sloppy writing and other abuses. It’s a crank-em-out mentality, usually for far less money than readers suspect (some of C.E.’s past publishers are notorious for their cheap treatment of authors.) It’s not uncommon for an author of C.E.-type historicals to get only $1,000 to $2,000 for a book, and authors trying desperately to earn a living are whipping out 3, 4, 5 books a year trying to make ends meet. Generally speaking, editors in the lower realms of “B-list romance novels” are fresh out of college, marking time until they get a better job, and don’t care too much one way or the other about quality as long as the book is sexy enough and the copyediting gets done. It’s a system built on quantity, not quality, and the writers who write the quickest have the best chance of success. Which DOES NOT excuse plagiarism, but i’m betting a lot of authors lift passages from old sources (public domain is legit; maybe not good writing, but not “illegal” to use) It’s more about whipping that material out in a hurry than about trying to rip off a fellow author or deceive loyal readers.
No author wants to see their entire career reduced to a vicious and often ignorant public debate such as C.E. Let the copyright experts go over her books. Let the law work. Copyright infringement is much more vague and complex than people realize; it really is possible that most of C.E.’s copying comes from legit sources, no matter what we think of her for using it verbatim.